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misc.fitness.weights -> Re: protein before or during a workuot better then after a workout?
There are 12 messages in this thread.
You are currently looking at messages 1 to 12.
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Author: JMWDate: 19:21 10-11-06
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"kcmunchkin@gmail.com" <kcmunchkin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>JMW wrote:
>>
>> >remember kids, john thinks mfw should only discuss what john wants to
>> >discuss.
>>
>> This from Mr. Supplements-Suck-Science-Sucks-Eat-Big-Lift-Weights.
>
>you're only correct in one of those four sets: supplements suck.
>
>i'm all for science.
And yet you ignore it, preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.
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Author: kcmunchkin@gmail.comDate: 19:35 10-11-06
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JMW wrote:
>
> And yet you ignore it, preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.
john, we've already gone over this: i do read journal articles, i just
find few that contain any conclusions that are of practical value with
regard to gaining strengh and/or muscle mass.
i have a whole folder of journal articles in pdf format on my computer
at home.
in fact, i just found one on my machine relating to the old one-set
versus multi-set argument that i found enlightening. if my machine at
home were connected to the internet, i'd post the citation.
and, if worshipping the accomplishments of bodybuilding greats like
sergio oliva, arnold, and scott wilson -- to name just a few -- is
silly, then i guess i'm silly.
if i remember your site correctly, you started in the iron game much
later than i did even though you're significantly older than i am.
does that matter? who knows...
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Author: CurtDate: 23:49 10-11-06
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John Williams wrote:
[...]
> <snip> preferring to worship old school bodybuilders.
Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
And Bill Grant is a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
Much respect.
Deny it and i WILL ride my big bad Harley to Ohio! ;o)
Of course, I'll never see YOU as you've neglected to ante up with your
phone number or address. My bestestest pal and all. Yeesh. :oS
I guess I could drop my Christmas card off at the dog pound. /That/
address has been posted often enough in the ng. Meh.
--
Curt
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Author: PeteDate: 09:00 11-11-06
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"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:
> Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben to shove that Mr.O up
his ass.
Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the Mr. Universes come
together and then see who was best, right? So why not create a contest for
Mr.O winners? And then, etc. etc.
> And Bill Grant is a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.
----
Pete
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Author: CurtDate: 11:59 11-11-06
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Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
>
> > Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
>
> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
Freddy Ortiz, too.
Pete, if you don't have Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of
bodybuilding then put it on your Christmas list. It's a fast read and
entertaining as hell. Tons of photos from the old days with new
captions written by Draper - who can really write well.
http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast-bodybuilding-scene.html
> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
Both incredible. A piece on Bill Pearl's Eugene (or Eugen) Sandow act
is how Tyler's book begins his book, btw. Here's that article:
http://www.davedraper.com/pearl-wcbs-excerpt.html
> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
the story there?
Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html
Apparently Joe Weider advised Arnold not to compete against Pearl in
1970 at the NABBA Universe for fear that a Schwarzenegger loss would
discredit the IFBB's version of the Mr. U.
> Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the
> Mr. Universes come together and then see who was best,
> right? So why not create a contest for Mr.O winners? And
> then, etc. etc.
But that would have been a short list of competitors, right? Scott,
Oliva, Arnold back then?
> > And Bill Grant is
Grant is 60 and is still in incredible shape. And I don't mean
_incredible shape for a 60-year-old man_ but incredible shape as in
*stepping on stage and winning a physique contest*.
> > a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
>
> So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.
Ha! Well, that makes him an actual rock star, but Levrone apparently,
despite his astounding genetic gifts, was not bit by the bodybuilding
bug like some. Grant and Draper still have that fire and are involved
in the sport.
Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/
They currently have a fund raiser for the original Gold's Gym.
http://ironage.us/mecca.html
> Pete
--
Curt
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Author: BillDate: 12:32 11-11-06
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"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163264347.649276.235590@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Pete wrote:
>> "Curt" schreef:
>>
>> > Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
>>
>> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
>
> Freddy Ortiz, too.
>
> Pete, if you don't have Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of
> bodybuilding then put it on your Christmas list. It's a fast read and
> entertaining as hell. Tons of photos from the old days with new
> captions written by Draper - who can really write well.
>
> http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast-bodybuilding-scene.html
>
>> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
>
> Both incredible. A piece on Bill Pearl's Eugene (or Eugen) Sandow act
> is how Tyler's book begins his book, btw. Here's that article:
> http://www.davedraper.com/pearl-wcbs-excerpt.html
>
>> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
>> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
>
> I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> the story there?
>
> Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
> http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html
>
> Apparently Joe Weider advised Arnold not to compete against Pearl in
> 1970 at the NABBA Universe for fear that a Schwarzenegger loss would
> discredit the IFBB's version of the Mr. U.
>
>> Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the
>> Mr. Universes come together and then see who was best,
>> right? So why not create a contest for Mr.O winners? And
>> then, etc. etc.
>
> But that would have been a short list of competitors, right? Scott,
> Oliva, Arnold back then?
>
>> > And Bill Grant is
>
> Grant is 60 and is still in incredible shape. And I don't mean
> _incredible shape for a 60-year-old man_ but incredible shape as in
> *stepping on stage and winning a physique contest*.
>
>> > a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
>>
>> So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.
>
> Ha! Well, that makes him an actual rock star, but Levrone apparently,
> despite his astounding genetic gifts, was not bit by the bodybuilding
> bug like some. Grant and Draper still have that fire and are involved
> in the sport.
>
> Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/
>
> They currently have a fund raiser for the original Gold's Gym.
> http://ironage.us/mecca.html
>
>> Pete
>
> --
> Curt
>
Hi Curt,
Have you seen this one?
http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/
Some of the scanned books are pretty interesting.
The one by Dowd has probably got the original Body for life "before" and
"after" pictures
http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/BB-dec%2053-dowd/dowd-09.jpg
http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/BB-dec%2053-dowd/dowd-11.jpg
Bill
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Author: PeteDate: 12:41 11-11-06
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"Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> schreef:
>> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
> Freddy Ortiz, too.
Also a good one.
> Pete, if you don't have Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of
> bodybuilding then put it on your Christmas list. It's a fast read and
> entertaining as hell. Tons of photos from the old days with new
> captions written by Draper - who can really write well.
> http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast-bodybuilding-scene.html
Will chech if the ABC has it in stock. I think they do.
>> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
> Both incredible. A piece on Bill Pearl's Eugene (or Eugen) Sandow act
> is how Tyler's book begins his book, btw. Here's that article:
> http://www.davedraper.com/pearl-wcbs-excerpt.html
>> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
>> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
> I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> the story there?
He was invited several time to compete in 65, but declined.
For the reasons i gave. I am pretty sure about that.
He figured a contest *on top* of the Universe was BS.
> Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
> http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html
> Apparently Joe Weider advised Arnold not to compete against Pearl in
> 1970 at the NABBA Universe for fear that a Schwarzenegger loss would
> discredit the IFBB's version of the Mr. U.
That thing went on even trough the early eighties.
Weird thing is that, in that period, the NABBA BBers appeared more massive.
>> Which makes sense. The intention of the O was let all the
>> Mr. Universes come together and then see who was best,
>> right? So why not create a contest for Mr.O winners? And
>> then, etc. etc.
> But that would have been a short list of competitors, right? Scott,
> Oliva, Arnold back then?
True.
But the list of competitors of the O was also short.
And... you probably remember what happened in 68. Nobody, exept Sergiom
showed up.
>> > And Bill Grant is
> Grant is 60 and is still in incredible shape. And I don't mean
> _incredible shape for a 60-year-old man_ but incredible shape as in
> *stepping on stage and winning a physique contest*.
>> > a rock star. http://www.billgrant.net/
>> So is Levrone. With his band "Full Blown." Cool name.
> Ha! Well, that makes him an actual rock star, but Levrone apparently,
> despite his astounding genetic gifts, was not bit by the bodybuilding
> bug like some. Grant and Draper still have that fire and are involved
> in the sport.
John Brown, a former NABBA Mr. Universe, was seen in a video about Shawn
Ray.
Seems he trained Shawn for quite a while.
John was a massive dude in the early eighties.
> Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/
> They currently have a fund raiser for the original Gold's Gym.
> http://ironage.us/mecca.html
Okay, will check that out.
----
Pete
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Author: CurtDate: 13:38 11-11-06
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Bill wrote:
> "Curt" wrote:
> > Pete wrote:
> >> "Curt" schreef:
> >>
> >> > Dave Draper is GOD! http://www.davedraper.com/
> >>
> >> Leroy Colbert wasnt so bad either. As was Harold Poole.
[...]
> >> Rick Wayne also looked pretty good. Bill Pearl wasnt so bad either.
[...]
> >> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
> >> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
> >
> > I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> > the story there?
> >
> > Googling "Bill Pearl and the Mr. Olympia" offered this URL:
> > http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/pearl.html
[...]
> > Here's one for you: http://ironage.us/
[...]
> Hi Curt,
>
> Have you seen this one?
>
> http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/
No, Bill, I hadn't seen that one. Thank you.
(checks link)
Man, that is awesome. As a teen, my introduction to bodybuilding and
weights was by Bob Hoffman's magazines and at least one of his books. I
must have gotten that at Ephrata's public library. I forget the title,
but it contained stories of, iirc, Louis Cyr, Tony Sansone, George
Jowett, Hermann Goerner, Steve Stanko, Johnny Terpak, of course John
Carl Grimek, Tony Terlazzo, and more. As a skinny kid, those stories of
Paul Anderson, et al. and their superhuman strength just set the wheels
of imagination rolling.
Thanks very much for that link, Bill.
> Some of the scanned books are pretty interesting.
>
> The one by Dowd has probably got the original Body for life "before" and
> "after" pictures
>
> http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/BB-dec%2053-dowd/dowd-09.jpg
>
> http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Library/BB-dec%2053-dowd/dowd-11.jpg
Yeah, I'm almost certain I've seen those images before somewhere.
And let's hear it for the narrow-shouldered physical culturist! ;o)
> Bill
--
Curt
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Author: CurtDate: 14:23 11-11-06
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Pete wrote:
> "Curt" schreef:
re Dick Tyler's book on the golden days of bodybuilding
http://www.davedraper.com/west-coast-bodybuilding-scene.html
> Will chech if the ABC has it in stock. I think they do.
It would be worth your time to stand there and read a few pages even if
you decide not to buy it immediately. Just a fun read and tons of
stories from that era.
re Bill Pearl
> >> And smart. In the politest way imagenable, he told Ben
> >> to shove that Mr.O up his ass.
>
> > I'm not familiar with Pearl being courted for the Mr. Olympia. What's
> > the story there?
>
> He was invited several time to compete in 65, but declined.
>
> For the reasons i gave. I am pretty sure about that.
> He figured a contest *on top* of the Universe was BS.
I can appreciate Pearl's opinion, but I'm certainly glad Weider's idea
was successful. Did you know that Dan Lurie (of the old WBBG)
apparently worked with Weider and even coined the name International
Federation of Bodybuilders?
NABBA versus IFBB
> That thing went on even trough the early eighties.
> Weird thing is that, in that period, the NABBA BBers
> appeared more massive.
Yeah, I remember reading about the NABBA competitions in Hoffman's
magazines as a teenager.
http://www.nabba-international.org/universe_legends.htm
The list of talent is phenomenal. Bertil Fox, Dave Johns (who was an
AAU Mr. America and sadly died at a young age), Bill Richardson (who I
saw guest pose at 1985's Mr. Britain contest), John Brown (noted for
his incredible posing as well as his physique), Tim Belknap (a massive
bodybuilder and another AAU America winner, iirc), and Tony Pearson
(surprise winner over the more massive - but also much wider of hips -
Ron Teufel in a Mr. America contest), among others. The NABBA Universe
and the AAU Mr. America were the titles, no doubt.
[...]
> >> <snip> So why not create a contest for Mr.O
> >> winners? And then, etc. etc.
>
> > But that would have been a short list of competitors,
> > right? Scott, Oliva, Arnold back then?
>
> True.
> But the list of competitors of the O was also short.
Yes.
> And... you probably remember what happened in 68.
> Nobody, exept Sergio showed up.
What? No, I didn't know that. Otoh, can you blame the other
competitors. Oliva was unbeatable. Arnold was very fortunate in that
respect.
(Googles)
Good grief. Sergio unopposed in 1968 and then Arnold unopposed in 1971.
http://www.getbig.com/articles/mro-hist.htm
I guess I just assumed that Sergio and Arnold had some competition at
both of those contests. Wtf? It doesn't negate the contests, but it
does bring a chuckle. I can't believe NO ONE would step on stage with
Oliva or Arnold just to make it a competition and pick up the silver
and bronze, eh?
[...]
> John Brown, a former NABBA Mr. Universe, was
> seen in a video about Shawn Ray.
> Seems he trained Shawn for quite a while.
>
> John was a massive dude in the early eighties.
I'm familiar with that athlete. He was in the mags when I was a
teenager and seriously scrutinizing each image and word.
According to the one URL above, Brown won the '81 and '82 NABBA Amateur
Universe. And Google offers...
http://www.musclememory.com/show.php?a=Brown,+John
Now that is a physique.
[...]
> Pete
--
Curt
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Author: kcmunchkin@gmail.comDate: 14:29 11-11-06
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Curt wrote:
> Pete wrote:
>
> > John Brown, a former NABBA Mr. Universe, was
> > seen in a video about Shawn Ray.
> > Seems he trained Shawn for quite a while.
> >
> > John was a massive dude in the early eighties.
>
> I'm familiar with that athlete. He was in the mags when I was a
> teenager and seriously scrutinizing each image and word.
>
> According to the one URL above, Brown won the '81 and '82 NABBA Amateur
> Universe. And Google offers...
>
> http://www.musclememory.com/show.php?a=Brown,+John
>
> Now that is a physique.
he looks kinda like a puffy aaron baker.
don't forget to ad casey viator and ed kawak to the list of old greats.
it was a surprise to see that ed passed away earlier this year.
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Author: CurtDate: 15:05 11-11-06
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kcmunchkin wrote:
re http://www.musclememory.com/show.php?a=Brown,+John
> he looks kinda like a puffy aaron baker.
Puffy? Okay, but taller and broader than Baker, too.
They shared the same hairstyle at least part of the time as well. I
don't know if Brown was a Batman fanatic, though. Like Lee Priest with
his Superman fixation, Baker was bats for Gotham City's Dark Knight.
> don't forget to ad casey viator and ed kawak to the
> list of old greats.
Yes, Viator was incredible, absolutely.
> it was a surprise to see that ed passed away earlier
> this year.
Definitely a surprise. Of a heart attack at age 47 (February 28, 1959
to May 23, 2006), the 5-times NABBA Mr. Universe winner passed in
Beijing, China. In addition to NABBA success, he also competed in the
IFBB. See also: http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Kawak,+Edouard
--
Curt
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Author: PeteDate: 17:15 11-11-06
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<kcmunchkin@gmail.com> schreef:
>> > John was a massive dude in the early eighties.
>> I'm familiar with that athlete. He was in the mags when I was a
>> teenager and seriously scrutinizing each image and word.
>> According to the one URL above, Brown won the '81 and '82 NABBA Amateur
>> Universe. And Google offers...
>> http://www.musclememory.com/show.php?a=Brown,+John
>> Now that is a physique.
> he looks kinda like a puffy aaron baker.
Puffy?
This is not even close to his best pics.
> don't forget to ad casey viator and ed kawak to the list of old greats.
> it was a surprise to see that ed passed away earlier this year.
Kawak was a monster in the eighties.
Viator was a monster in the late sixties, with a nice comeback in the early
eighties.
One of the thickest abdominal walls i have ever seen.
And he was as strong as he looked. Thats important.
----
Pete
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