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misc.fitness.weights -> What builds maximum muscle?
There are 35 messages in this thread.
You are currently looking at messages 1 to 20.
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Author: BodyBuilderDate: 22:14 16-11-06
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I know that low reps and heavy weights build maximum muscle. For bench
press, bicep curl, leg press etc., how many reps and how many sets
would be ideal for someone working out 3 times a week? Really
appreciate your opinion.
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Author: CurtDate: 22:55 16-11-06
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BodyBuilder wrote:
> I know
Sweet. How's that working out for you?
> that low reps and heavy weights build maximum muscle.
Define low. Define heavy. Define maximum.
Please.
> For bench press, bicep curl, leg press etc., how many
> reps and how many sets would be ideal
A good question. HIT much? One set of 8 - 12 reps? Iris Kyle much? Four
sets of 15 reps per exercise? Hmm. Might wanna define ideal, too. Tia.
> for someone working out 3 times a week?
But is 3 times a week best?
Just sayin'.
> Really appreciate your opinion.
No opinions, but a few requests for definitions and a few questions to
boot.
--
Curt
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Author: JMWDate: 00:11 17-11-06
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"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I know that low reps and heavy weights build maximum muscle. For bench
>press, bicep curl, leg press etc., how many reps and how many sets
>would be ideal for someone working out 3 times a week? Really
>appreciate your opinion.
6-12 reps, 3-4 sets. YMMV. Adjust to your liking.
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Author: BodyBuilderDate: 00:43 17-11-06
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Since there are some very experienced bodybuilders here, I really
wanted to hear your opinions. I guess my question is, 3 times a week,
how many reps/sets would build maximum strength fastest in the same
amount of time?
JMW, 6-12 reps, 3-4 sets is a very wide range. Would 6 reps/4 sets
build more muscle in the same amount of time as opposed 12 reps/4 sets?
I have very little time to workout so I want to make sure that I am
building maximum strength that I can in that time.
Curt, what is HIT or Iris Kyle? So 1 set, 10 reps would probably build
the most muscle, right?
Thanks everyone for your responses.
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Author: JMWDate: 00:51 17-11-06
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"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Since there are some very experienced bodybuilders here, I really
>wanted to hear your opinions. I guess my question is, 3 times a week,
>how many reps/sets would build maximum strength fastest in the same
>amount of time?
>
>JMW, 6-12 reps, 3-4 sets is a very wide range. Would 6 reps/4 sets
>build more muscle in the same amount of time as opposed 12 reps/4 sets?
>I have very little time to workout so I want to make sure that I am
>building maximum strength that I can in that time.
OK. Split the difference. Try eight reps for 3 sets.
Be realistic. There is no "magic number." Those are ranges from the
current position paper by the American College of Sports Medicine.
Everyone is different. You need to experiment and determine what is
optimal for *you*. Anyone who gives you a specific number as being
"perfect" is full of crap and is probably selling something.
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Author: CharlesDate: 04:01 17-11-06
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On 16 Nov 2006 19:14:21 -0800, "BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>I know that low reps and heavy weights build maximum muscle. For bench
>press, bicep curl, leg press etc., how many reps and how many sets
>would be ideal for someone working out 3 times a week? Really
>appreciate your opinion.
If you're starting out then three sets of ten using a weight that you
can just manage for the last couple of reps of the final set.
If you are further advanced and have reached a plateau, then increase
the weight and do five sets of five. Try some ascending pyramids.
That's very generalised but sound in principle.
Have a great weekend - I always do! ;o)
TFIF!
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Author: Tom AndersonDate: 06:35 17-11-06
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006, JMW wrote:
> "BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> JMW, 6-12 reps, 3-4 sets is a very wide range.
>
> Be realistic. There is no "magic number." Those are ranges from the
> current position paper by the American College of Sports Medicine.
I thought it was 2 x 6-12, but i might be out of date - do you have
areference to the position paper handy?
tom
--
see im down wid yo sci fi crew
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Author: CurtDate: 06:58 17-11-06
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BodyBuilder wrote:
[...]
> Curt, what is HIT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Intensity_Training
HIT is another approach to training with weights. There seem to be
countless programs.
> or Iris Kyle?
She's a very successful bodybuilder who has stated that a lot of
lifters let ego get in the way of their gains. She's also been
associated with a 4 x 15 program by at least one Googled link. (Not
exactly PubMed in nature, but worth investigating further, imo.)
> So 1 set, 10 reps would probably build the most
> muscle, right?
You're using muscle and strength as synonymous throughout this thread.
I'm not sure that's correct. Certainly their's a connection, but it's
relative to each individual. Maybe.
[...]
Charles mentioned 3 x 10 and pyramids. You might want to see if you can
get your hand on a copy of any basic weight training book at the
library. It should explain the nuts and bolts.
One of my favorite books on the subject: _Bodybuilding for Everyone_ by
Lou Ravelle.
http://www.thelittlebookshop.net/si/0406-104.html
That link leads to a copy for around $14. I purchased a copy some time
ago for just a few bucks at www.alibris.com/.
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Lou%20Ravelle
Yup. Looks like the cheap copies are still available. It's currently at
2 on the list on the other side of that link.
Best of luck.
--
Curt
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Author: JMWDate: 07:52 17-11-06
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Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Nov 2006, JMW wrote:
>
>> "BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> JMW, 6-12 reps, 3-4 sets is a very wide range.
>>
>> Be realistic. There is no "magic number." Those are ranges from the
>> current position paper by the American College of Sports Medicine.
>
>I thought it was 2 x 6-12, but i might be out of date - do you have
>areference to the position paper handy?
I re-read it, and actually, since he's more of a novice, 8-12 reps,
1-3 sets, 70-85% of 1RM. Here's the cite:
Kraemer WJ, Adams K, Cafarelli E, Dudley GA, Dooly C, Feigenbaum MS,
Fleck SJ, Franklin B, Fry AC, Hoffman JR, Newton RU, Potteiger J,
Stone MH, Ratamess NA, Triplett-McBride T. American College of Sports
Medicine position stand. Progression models in resistance training for
healthy adults. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002 Feb;34(2):364-80.
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Author: BodyBuilderDate: 08:39 17-11-06
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Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I'll go the 2 set/6 rep
route and use the heaviest weight possible.
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Author: Steve FreidesDate: 09:16 17-11-06
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"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163733261.449087.78590@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I know that low reps and heavy weights build maximum muscle. For bench
> press, bicep curl, leg press etc., how many reps and how many sets
> would be ideal for someone working out 3 times a week? Really
> appreciate your opinion.
A high total weekly volume of weights will make you stronger and, if you
eat enough, make you bigger as well. You'll find plenty of big
powerlifters who got that way doing 10 sets of 3 (your "low reps and
heavy weights", which I like) and not 3 sets of 10. What works is
good, what works "best" is something easy to write about but near
impossible to actually find. Keep a training log, learn to perform the
basic lifts well, and adjust as necessary. Find heavy things, move
them, rest, repeat, eat.
-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
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Author: PeteDate: 10:05 17-11-06
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"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> schreef:
>I know that low reps and heavy weights build maximum muscle.
Then why do you ask?
> For bench press, bicep curl, leg press etc., how many reps and how many
> sets
> would be ideal for someone working out 3 times a week? Really
> appreciate your opinion.
4-12 reps, 3-8 sets, 2-5 exercises
----
Pete
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Author: ShuteDate: 12:03 17-11-06
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On 17 Nov 2006 03:58:54 -0800, "Curt" <curtjames@gmail.com> wrote:
>She's a very successful bodybuilder who has stated that a lot of
>lifters let ego get in the way of their gains.
Oh come on. Guys would never do that. : )
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Author: Proctologically Violated©®Date: 14:14 17-11-06
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Here's the abstract that jmw, our resident self-professed lawyer (who can't
use words like "conversely" correctly), was referring to.
And from which he arbitrarily selected some number that suited his fancy,
so's he can, once again, fake it.
Keep in mind that it is only an abstract (all that jmw ever reads), and
appears to cover half the lifting world, but the limited text here does give
at least *some* context to the recs.
This is probably *not* what you will find more serious lifters using, but
that doesn't mean it's not good provisional advice.
Very very interesting: their *strong* recommendation on whole-body mod. wt
fast repetitions.
Speaking not as a lifter, but more as a "biggest-bang-for-my-buck"
exerciser-dude (and also from a safety pov that becomes more, uh, heavily
weighted <g> as one gets older), I like selective pyramiding, both up and
down:
Rapid pyramiding up, to get something of a 1 RM, slower pyramiding down, for
more reps, muscle fatigue, calorie burn, etc. And also to perhaps
concentrate on a particular weight range.
In a sense, up/down pyramiding sort of wraps up many strategies into one,
for a bit of a longer workout, but probably w/ a number of other side
benefits.
Not saying this is best pure strength-gaining strategy, but it does cover a
lot of bases.
For a lot of really interesting articles on how a lot of different people
approach this issue, some world class, see cncbass.com. Wide-ranging,
well-written, very interesting.
Well, it turns out that God has a use for everyone.
jmw, even tho he rarely knows of what he speaks or tries to read, does
provide some good refs once in a blue moon. Sorta like, well, a really good
paralegal!
Keep up the good work, jm.
Progression models in resistance training for
healthy adults
In order to stimulate further adaptation toward a specific training goal(s),
progression in the type of resistance training protocol used is necessary.
The optimal characteristics of strength-specific programs include the use of
both concentric and eccentric muscle actions and the performance of both
single- and multiple-joint exercises. It is also recommended that the
strength program sequence exercises to optimize the quality of the exercise
intensity (large before small muscle group exercises, multiple-joint
exercises before single-joint exercises, and higher intensity before lower
intensity exercises). For initial resistances, it is recommended that loads
corresponding to 8-12 repetition maximum (RM) be used in novice training.
For intermediate to advanced training, it is recommended that individuals
use a wider loading range, from 1-12 RM in a periodized fashion, with
eventual emphasis on heavy loading (1-6 RM) using at least 3-min rest
periods between sets performed at a moderate contraction velocity (1-2 s
concentric, 1-2 s eccentric). When training at a specific RM load, it is
recommended that 2-10% increase in load be applied when the individual can
perform the current workload for one to two repetitions over the desired
number. The recommendation for training frequency is 2-3 d x wk(-1) for
novice and intermediate training and 4-5 d x wk(-1) for advanced training.
Similar program designs are recommended for hypertrophy training with
respect to exercise selection and frequency. For loading, it is recommended
that loads corresponding to 1-12 RM be used in periodized fashion, with
emphasis on the 6-12 RM zone using 1- to 2-min rest periods between sets at
a moderate velocity. Higher volume, multiple-set programs are recommended
for maximizing hypertrophy. Progression in power training entails two
general loading strategies: 1) strength training, and 2) use of light loads
(30-60% of 1 RM) performed at a fast contraction velocity with 2-3 min of
rest between sets for multiple sets per exercise. It is also recommended
that emphasis be placed on multiple-joint exercises, especially those
involving the total body. For local muscular endurance training, it is
recommended that light to moderate loads (40-60% of 1 RM) be performed for
high repetitions (> 15) using short rest periods (< 90 s). In the
interpretation of this position stand, as with prior ones, the
recommendations should be viewed in context of the individual's target
goals, physical capacity, and training status.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163770768.620122.137620@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I'll go the 2 set/6 rep
> route and use the heaviest weight possible.
>
>
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Author: ShuteDate: 15:19 17-11-06
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On 17 Nov 2006 05:39:28 -0800, "BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I'll go the 2 set/6 rep
>route and use the heaviest weight possible.
I think you would be better off with 3 sets of 8-10 reps.
For starters you might have a hard time recovering using a 3 day full
body workout. I also think if you use such low reps you should do
more sets. So I think with 6 reps you would be better off doing 4
sets. You need to rest longer between sets if you are using lower
reps.
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Author: ShuteDate: 15:28 17-11-06
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:14:13 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
<entropic3.14decay@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>Here's the abstract that jmw, our resident self-professed lawyer (who can't
>use words like "conversely" correctly), was referring to.
>And from which he arbitrarily selected some number that suited his fancy,
>so's he can, once again, fake it.
>
>Keep in mind that it is only an abstract (all that jmw ever reads), and
>appears to cover half the lifting world, but the limited text here does give
>at least *some* context to the recs.
>This is probably *not* what you will find more serious lifters using, but
>that doesn't mean it's not good provisional advice.
>Very very interesting: their *strong* recommendation on whole-body mod. wt
>fast repetitions.
>
>Speaking not as a lifter, but more as a "biggest-bang-for-my-buck"
>exerciser-dude (and also from a safety pov that becomes more, uh, heavily
>weighted <g> as one gets older), I like selective pyramiding, both up and
>down:
>Rapid pyramiding up, to get something of a 1 RM, slower pyramiding down, for
>more reps, muscle fatigue, calorie burn, etc. And also to perhaps
>concentrate on a particular weight range.
>In a sense, up/down pyramiding sort of wraps up many strategies into one,
>for a bit of a longer workout, but probably w/ a number of other side
>benefits.
>Not saying this is best pure strength-gaining strategy, but it does cover a
>lot of bases.
>
>For a lot of really interesting articles on how a lot of different people
>approach this issue, some world class, see cncbass.com. Wide-ranging,
>well-written, very interesting.
>
>Well, it turns out that God has a use for everyone.
>jmw, even tho he rarely knows of what he speaks or tries to read, does
>provide some good refs once in a blue moon. Sorta like, well, a really good
>paralegal!
>Keep up the good work, jm.
He doesn't need anything that complicated yet. If he is doing well he
should be increasing weight very quickly. That rapid change should be
enough to keep stimulating muscle growth and strength. A simple
routine might get him by for six months before he has to change things
up a bit.
I think more importantly he should hit all the major muscle groups.
Otherwise he will regret it later.
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Author: Tom AndersonDate: 15:59 17-11-06
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006, Shute wrote:
> On 17 Nov 2006 05:39:28 -0800, "BodyBuilder" <mfarid1@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I'll go the 2 set/6 rep
>> route and use the heaviest weight possible.
>
> I think you would be better off with 3 sets of 8-10 reps.
No, 2 sets of 8-10 reps! No need for three - use the time to do more
different exercises, or just go home sooner.
> For starters you might have a hard time recovering using a 3 day full
> body workout.
Right at the beginning, perhaps - so do a workout, wait until you feel
okay, do it again. Eventually, you get to three a week.
Also, to give yourself a chance to get used to the movements of the
exercises, maybe start off doing something like 3x15 with fairly light
weights. When your form is perfect, move up to 2x10. That's what i did,
and it worked okay; that's not to say other approaches won't.
> I also think if you use such low reps you should do more sets. So I
> think with 6 reps you would be better off doing 4 sets.
Or just do more reps.
> You need to rest longer between sets if you are using lower reps.
Yes!
tom
--
Just because Congresspeople do it, doesn't mean it's right. -- Ian York
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Author: Proctologically Violated©®Date: 16:04 17-11-06
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Yeah, my pyramid thing (scheme?) is sort of a catch-all, so's I don't have
to think too much. Because my workouts are sort of erratic, how the "up"
part of my pyramid goes sort of tells me what I'm capable of that particular
day, and has a built-in warmup.
Again, more of a best-bang-fer-yer-buck exercise thing.
But this pyramid stuff is what the gymnasts and wrestlers used to do on the
Universals in college--beat the shit out of that machine. Their
stamina/strength was extraordinary.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Shute" <Shute@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:8i6sl29f4a1f8ihib1i29356iu3554lpkv@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:14:13 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
> <entropic3.14decay@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>
>>Here's the abstract that jmw, our resident self-professed lawyer (who
>>can't
>>use words like "conversely" correctly), was referring to.
>>And from which he arbitrarily selected some number that suited his fancy,
>>so's he can, once again, fake it.
>>
>>Keep in mind that it is only an abstract (all that jmw ever reads), and
>>appears to cover half the lifting world, but the limited text here does
>>give
>>at least *some* context to the recs.
>>This is probably *not* what you will find more serious lifters using, but
>>that doesn't mean it's not good provisional advice.
>>Very very interesting: their *strong* recommendation on whole-body mod.
>>wt
>>fast repetitions.
>>
>>Speaking not as a lifter, but more as a "biggest-bang-for-my-buck"
>>exerciser-dude (and also from a safety pov that becomes more, uh, heavily
>>weighted <g> as one gets older), I like selective pyramiding, both up and
>>down:
>>Rapid pyramiding up, to get something of a 1 RM, slower pyramiding down,
>>for
>>more reps, muscle fatigue, calorie burn, etc. And also to perhaps
>>concentrate on a particular weight range.
>>In a sense, up/down pyramiding sort of wraps up many strategies into one,
>>for a bit of a longer workout, but probably w/ a number of other side
>>benefits.
>>Not saying this is best pure strength-gaining strategy, but it does cover
>>a
>>lot of bases.
>>
>>For a lot of really interesting articles on how a lot of different people
>>approach this issue, some world class, see cncbass.com. Wide-ranging,
>>well-written, very interesting.
>>
>>Well, it turns out that God has a use for everyone.
>>jmw, even tho he rarely knows of what he speaks or tries to read, does
>>provide some good refs once in a blue moon. Sorta like, well, a really
>>good
>>paralegal!
>>Keep up the good work, jm.
>
> He doesn't need anything that complicated yet. If he is doing well he
> should be increasing weight very quickly. That rapid change should be
> enough to keep stimulating muscle growth and strength. A simple
> routine might get him by for six months before he has to change things
> up a bit.
>
> I think more importantly he should hit all the major muscle groups.
> Otherwise he will regret it later.
>
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Author: JMWDate: 17:56 17-11-06
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BodyBuilder wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I'll go the 2 set/6 rep
> route and use the heaviest weight possible.
That's not a bad routine. It's just geared more toward strength and
neuromuscular patterning for maximal lifts than it is toward muscular
hypertrophy. At this point, that may actually be the better answer for
you, even if you don't HYOOOOOGE quite as quickly.
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Author: CurtDate: 22:48 17-11-06
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John Williams quipped:
> BodyBuilder wrote:
> > Thanks everyone for your responses. I guess I'll go the
> > 2 set/6 rep route and use the heaviest weight possible.
>
> That's not a bad routine.
And yours isn't a bad routine either, Johnny.
> It's just geared more toward strength and neuromuscular
> patterning for maximal lifts than it is toward muscular
> hypertrophy. At this point, that may actually be the better
> answer for you, even if you don't HYOOOOOGE quite as
> quickly.
But, hey, it seems something is missing.
I mean, "even if you don't HYOOOOOGE quite as quickly"?
Here's a quick test. Complete the joke. (It's even multiple choice.)
Why'd the chicken cross the road?
a) To GET to the other side.
b) To to the other side.
c) both a and b
d) other
Timer's running. Go!
--
Curt
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