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misc.fitness.weights -> CrossFit
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What I've read about crossfit (at crossfit.com and other places)
doesn't match up at all with a Dec 22 NYT article about it called
"Getting Fit, Even if It Kills You."
The author, Stephanie Cooperman, claims that crossfit doesn't
emphasize technique and that crossfit enthusiasts don't care whether
they get injured.
I'd like to know Ms. Cooperman's credentials on the subject of
physical fitness.
I suspect that many gym owners, trainers, and members would find
crossfit intimidating.
Of course, there's always the possibility of running into nutty
trainers or lifters anywhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/fashion/thursdaystyles/22Fitness.html
December 22, 2005
Physical Culture
Getting Fit, Even if It Kills You
By STEPHANIE COOPERMAN
WHILE many gymgoers complain that they might not survive a tough
workout, Brian Anderson can speak from experience. For his first
CrossFit session, he swung a 44-pound steel ball with a handle over
his head and between his legs. The aim was to do 50 quick repetitions,
rest and repeat. After 30 minutes, Mr. Anderson, a 38-year-old member
of the special weapons and tactics team in the sheriff's office in
Tacoma, Wash., left the gym with his muscles sapped and back pain so
excruciating that he had to lie in the driveway to collect himself.
That night he went to the emergency room, where doctors told him he
had rhabdomyolysis, which is caused when muscle fiber breaks down and
is released into the bloodstream, poisoning the kidneys. He spent six
days in intensive care.
Yet six months later Mr. Anderson, a former Army Ranger, was back in
the gym, performing the very exercises that nearly killed him. "I see
pushing my body to the point where the muscles destroy themselves as a
huge benefit of CrossFit," he said.
In the last year this controversial exercise program has attracted a
growing following of thousands nationwide, who log on to CrossFit.com
for a daily workout, said its founder, Greg Glassman. Participants
skip StairMasters and weight machines. Instead they do high-intensity
workouts that mix gymnastics, track and field skills and bodybuilding,
resting very little between movements.
The emphasis is on speed and weight hoisted, not technique. And the
importance placed on quantifiable results has attracted hard-charging
people like hedge fund managers, former Olympians and scientists. But
some exercise experts are troubled by the lack of guidance for
beginners, who may dive into stressful workouts as Mr. Anderson did.
(He had not worked out regularly for two years.) "There's no way
inexperienced people doing this are not going to hurt themselves,"
said Wayne Winnick, a sports medicine specialist in private practice
in Manhattan, who also works for the New York City Marathon.
Other critics say that even fit people risk injury if they exercise
strenuously and too quickly to give form its due, as CrossFit
participants often do. For people who like to push the limits of
fitness and strength - there are many police officers, firefighters
and military personnel in the ranks of CrossFit athletes - the risks
are worth it, because they consider it the most challenging workout
around.
The short grueling sessions aren't for the weekend gym warrior. The
three-days-on, one-day-rest schedule includes workouts like "Cindy":
20 minutes of as many repetitions as you can of 5 pull-ups, 10
push-ups, 15 squats. "Fight Gone Bad" entails rotating through five
exercises, including throwing a 20-pound ball at a target 10 feet
away. And only veteran CrossFit devotees even attempt, and few
complete, "Murph," a timed mile run, 100 pull-ups, 200 push-ups, 300
squats and then a second mile run. (A weighted vest is optional.)
Mr. Glassman, CrossFit's founder, does not discount his regimen's
risks, even to those who are in shape and take the time to warm up
their bodies before a session.
"It can kill you," he said. "I've always been completely honest about
that."
But CrossFitters revel in the challenge. A common axiom among
practitioners is "I met Pukey," meaning they worked out so hard they
vomited. Some even own T-shirts emblazoned with a clown, Pukey.
CrossFit's other mascot is Uncle Rhabdo, another clown, whose kidneys
have spilled onto the floor presumably due to rhabdomyolysis.
Mr. Glassman, 49, a former gymnast from Santa Cruz, Calif., walks with
a slight limp because of a knee injury, and at 5-foot-7 and 185 pounds
admits he should lose weight. He began developing CrossFit more than
two decades ago, but he says that he spends so much time running the
business now that he no longer regularly does the routines. At first
his program was a hard sell to clients who weren't keen to climb ropes
or grapple with gymnastic rings.
Then in 2001 he launched CrossFit.com and began publishing a monthly
journal and holding seminars at his California gym. People from around
the world have come to learn Mr. Glassman's techniques. Today CrossFit
has more than 50 affiliates in 21 states and 5 countries, Mr. Glassman
said. And CrossFit.com has 25,000 unique visitors a week, according to
WebSideStory, a Web analytics company in Seattle.
Mr. Glassman's followers call him Coach and share a cultlike devotion
to his theories.
"We are all drinking the Kool-Aid," said Eugene Allen, another Tacoma
SWAT team member who introduced Mr. Anderson to CrossFit last summer.
"It's hard not to catch Coach's enthusiasm."
Devotees say CrossFit has enabled them to challenge their bodies in
ways they never thought possible. Eva Twardokens, 40, an Olympic
alpine skier in the 1992 and 1994 Games, said years of CrossFit
training have enabled her to bench-press 155 pounds, 20 more than she
could when she was training for the Olympics.
Tariq Kassum, 31, a research analyst in New York, found both the
workout community and the variety of difficult exercises he was
looking for. Online, where some participants record their workout
progress, people cheered him on as his upper-body strength increased.
When he started CrossFit, Mr. Kassum was unable to do a handstand, but
after a year with the program he can do push-ups from that position.
CrossFit exercises can be made more or less intense based on a
person's abilities, but the workouts are the same for everyone, from
marines to senior citizens. And some critics say that is a big part of
what's wrong.
"My concern is that one cookie-cutter program doesn't apply to
everyone," said Fabio Comana, an exercise physiologist at the American
Council on Exercise. He said people in their 60's who have
osteoporosis, for example, may not be able to do an overhead press,
pushing a barbell over one's head.
CrossFit enthusiasts are also criticized for being cavalier about the
injuries they sustain, including chronic soreness, pulled muscles and
even some separated shoulders. Norma Loehr, 37, a vice president for a
financial services company in New York, was sidelined for a week after
she strained her back doing "Three Bars of Death," 10 sets of 3 lifts
using barbells that weigh up to one and a half times as much as the
person using them. She realized the barbells were too heavy, but she
didn't want to waste the seconds it would have taken to change plates.
Mr. Glassman said that he has never been sued by an injured client and
that paramedics have never had to treat one of his clients in his gym.
But he acknowledged that as many as six CrossFit participants have
suffered rhabdomyolysis, which often sets in more than a day after
excessive exercise.
After they complete the workout of the day, hundreds of people post
their times and the amount they have lifted on the Web site, making
CrossFit a competitive online sport.
"When I first started the program, I could barely do a pull-up, so I
was embarrassed to post," Mr. Kassum said. "Now that I can do 20 or
30, I'm on there every day. People on there are animals."
Those people include Kelly Moore, a 42-year-old Wisconsin police
dispatcher and former powerlifter who is 5 feet tall and 117 pounds
and has eight-pack abs. Her self-reported statistics have become the
stuff of legend on CrossFit.com, inspiring both praise ("Pull-ups with
a broken hand? You rock!") and amazement that she beats most men on
the site. ("I'll be chasing Kelly until I die. At this rate,
literally.")
CrossFit has an especially large number of police, firefighter and
military participants. Members of Navy Seals, Air Force Pararescue and
Special Forces groups also do workouts. And though it is not
recognized as an official military regimen, CrossFit has drawn the
attention of people in charge of military preparation. Capt. Timothy
Joyce teaches CrossFit to marines in the Fleet Support Division in
Barstow, Calif. And Capt. J. T. Williams, the chief standards officer
at the Canadian Infantry School, where officers are trained, helped
run a six-week trial where half of the participants followed the
school's fitness program and half did CrossFit workouts. He declared
CrossFit "very effective."
In recent months a group of New York CrossFit athletes have tried
unsuccessfully to find a home gym. Joshua Newman, the group's
organizer, said gym managers expressed concerns that they took up too
much space, or even that their fast and furious pull-ups would break
the apparatus.
"They used too many pieces of equipment at one time, and we got a lot
of complaints from trainers who didn't like being on the floor with
them," said Eric Slayton, the owner of New York Underground Fitness, a
Midtown gym that Crossfit New York called home for a few weeks. "They
put too much emphasis on getting things done in a certain amount of
time and not enough on form."
But for Mr. Glassman, dismissals of his extreme workouts merely help
him weed out people he considers weak-willed. "If you find the notion
of falling off the rings and breaking your neck so foreign to you,
then we don't want you in our ranks," he said.
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Author: HobbesDate: 09:11 23-12-05
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In article <ltrnq11kg2ab93sac5g6sllnp6pvom3ta5@4ax.com>,
damifino@oldman.org wrote:
> What I've read about crossfit (at crossfit.com and other places)
> doesn't match up at all with a Dec 22 NYT article about it called
> "Getting Fit, Even if It Kills You."
>
> The author, Stephanie Cooperman, claims that crossfit doesn't
> emphasize technique and that crossfit enthusiasts don't care whether
> they get injured.
>
> I'd like to know Ms. Cooperman's credentials on the subject of
> physical fitness.
>
> I suspect that many gym owners, trainers, and members would find
> crossfit intimidating.
>
> Of course, there's always the possibility of running into nutty
> trainers or lifters anywhere.
[snip article]
Anyone can overreach by trying to do too much too soon. I don't think
you can fault the program. Perhaps it would be prudent to put a
disclaimer on the site that gradual progression and learning technique
are advised.
But the article was simply a media person spinning a story. The idea
that it dangerous to lift a kettlebell overhead or do swings is
ludicrous, but she calls it a 44 lb steel ball and makes it sound
dangerous.
Sensationalism. Whatever happened to objective journalists?
--
Keith
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Author: Steve FreidesDate: 09:27 23-12-05
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<damifino@oldman.org> wrote in message
news:ltrnq11kg2ab93sac5g6sllnp6pvom3ta5@4ax.com...
> What I've read about crossfit (at crossfit.com and other places)
> doesn't match up at all with a Dec 22 NYT article about it called
> "Getting Fit, Even if It Kills You."
>
> The author, Stephanie Cooperman, claims that crossfit doesn't
> emphasize technique and that crossfit enthusiasts don't care whether
> they get injured.
>
> I'd like to know Ms. Cooperman's credentials on the subject of
> physical fitness.
>
> I suspect that many gym owners, trainers, and members would find
> crossfit intimidating.
>
> Of course, there's always the possibility of running into nutty
> trainers or lifters anywhere.
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/fashion/thursdaystyles/22Fitness.html
-snip-
From what little I know of Crossfit, it doesn't sound like a bad
article. That article will probably serve to keep many people from
trying it while at the same time attracting the type that Crossfit wants
to attract. I didn't read the article as a put-down of Crossfit, just a
description of what it is.
IMHO, one can reap many of the conditioning benefits of Crossfit in
other ways. Two come to mind. First is Bryce Lane's "50/20", where you
take a big compound lift, e.g., a barbell clean and press, and you try
to get 50 reps in 20 minutes. You can use a real weight for something
like this and get just about everything a non-PL or non-Oly competitor
would want - strength, endurance, cardio. Bryce maintains a board at
http://b4.ezboard.com/btheironworks
Second is more reps with a lighter weight, along the lines of what
Dragan Radovic does or Girevoy (Kettlebell) Sport. This approach is
also good for someone who wants to "have it all" in my opinion. You
won't be big but you'll be strong, you'll have endurance, and you'll
have no need for separate cardio work. By the way, there is now a
second source for Girevoy Sport stuff besides DragonDoor - see
http://usgsf.com. You can click on the Girevoy Sport News button,
scroll down, and read the rules of kettlebell competition.
-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
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Author: Steve FreidesDate: 14:42 23-12-05
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Author: Lee MichaelsDate: 16:24 23-12-05
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"Hobbes" <khobman800@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Whatever happened to objective journalists?
>
Objective journalists Keith??
That is what is referred to as an oxymoron.
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Author: David CohenDate: 19:38 23-12-05
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Author: Steve FreidesDate: 23:20 23-12-05
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Author: spodosaurusDate: 02:35 24-12-05
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Hobbes wrote:
> In article <ltrnq11kg2ab93sac5g6sllnp6pvom3ta5@4ax.com>,
> damifino@oldman.org wrote:
>
>
>>What I've read about crossfit (at crossfit.com and other places)
>>doesn't match up at all with a Dec 22 NYT article about it called
>>"Getting Fit, Even if It Kills You."
>>
>>The author, Stephanie Cooperman, claims that crossfit doesn't
>>emphasize technique and that crossfit enthusiasts don't care whether
>>they get injured.
>>
>>I'd like to know Ms. Cooperman's credentials on the subject of
>>physical fitness.
>>
>>I suspect that many gym owners, trainers, and members would find
>>crossfit intimidating.
>>
>>Of course, there's always the possibility of running into nutty
>>trainers or lifters anywhere.
>
>
> [snip article]
>
> Anyone can overreach by trying to do too much too soon. I don't think
> you can fault the program. Perhaps it would be prudent to put a
> disclaimer on the site that gradual progression and learning technique
> are advised.
>
> But the article was simply a media person spinning a story. The idea
> that it dangerous to lift a kettlebell overhead or do swings is
> ludicrous, but she calls it a 44 lb steel ball and makes it sound
> dangerous.
>
> Sensationalism. Whatever happened to objective journalists?
>
The coalition of the willing has them in secret CIA detention camps.
It's just as bad in Australia and the UK. Makes me very agitated when I
hear these morons crapping on about things they don't understand (which
is just about everything).
Ari
--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
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On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:20:28 -0500, "Steve Freides"
<steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>"David Cohen" <sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:aM0rf.9661$nm.3179@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote
>>> <coach@fuckedmeintheass.com> wrote
>>>> Try this book on weight training. It has been a big help to many.
>>>> www.mymomlicksmyballs.com/ebook.html
>>>
>>> No, thank you.
>>
>> That's Steve, Coach. He's nice.
>>
>> As for me, please go fuck your spamming whore mother in the ass with a
>> broken coke bottle ($1.52 to Best Friends Animal Society in Rob
>> Schuh's name).
>>
>> David
>
>Love Me, I'm A Liberal.
>
>-S-
>http://www.kbnj.com
And in a recent thread - "Just call me an ultra-conservative. :) "
(I'd use a larger size for the smiley icon if I could.)
What's a liberal ultra-conservative?
>From what little I know of Crossfit, it doesn't sound like a bad
>article.
An article that says crossfit trainers and enthusiasts don't care
about proper technique or injury prevention?
>That article will probably serve to keep many people from
>trying it while at the same time attracting the type that Crossfit wants to attract.
That would be a clever strategy but good only if CrossFit does care
about proper technique and injury prevention.
>I didn't read the article as a put-down of Crossfit, just a
>description of what it is.
I read it as a put-down by a journalist who sounds like she (1) is
intimidated by a balls-to-the-wall workout and/or (2) hopes that this
description will get her a lot of attention. I suspect that trainers
and members at most gyms - and most NYT readers who "exercise" -
would, for various reasons, share a negative attitude towards a
CrossFit-type approach to strength and strength-endurance training.
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Author: Steve FreidesDate: 15:16 24-12-05
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<damifino@oldman.org> wrote in message
news:d7vqq15dtu3dk199rho8c2a4tauprblfts@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:20:28 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>>"David Cohen" <sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:aM0rf.9661$nm.3179@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote
>>>> <coach@fuckedmeintheass.com> wrote
>>>>> Try this book on weight training. It has been a big help to many.
>>>>> www.mymomlicksmyballs.com/ebook.html
>>>>
>>>> No, thank you.
>>>
>>> That's Steve, Coach. He's nice.
>>>
>>> As for me, please go fuck your spamming whore mother in the ass with
>>> a
>>> broken coke bottle ($1.52 to Best Friends Animal Society in Rob
>>> Schuh's name).
>>>
>>> David
>>
>>Love Me, I'm A Liberal.
>>
>>-S-
>>http://www.kbnj.com
>
> And in a recent thread - "Just call me an ultra-conservative. :) "
>
> (I'd use a larger size for the smiley icon if I could.)
>
> What's a liberal ultra-conservative?
A free thinker. :)
>>From what little I know of Crossfit, it doesn't sound like a bad
>>article.
>
> An article that says crossfit trainers and enthusiasts don't care
> about proper technique or injury prevention?
I don't think Crossfit places an emphasis on proper technique or injury
prevention - that doesn't mean they think those things aren't important,
it just means that they assume the people who participate in their
programs have already learned proper technique and are smart and
self-monitoring enough to practice it when they workout.
There are, by the way, a couple of threads on DragonDoor in recent days
discussing similiarities and differences between the Party approach and
the CF approach - several people including some relatively well-known
RKC have offered the opinion that they've quite similar, while Pavel has
disagreed and pointed out why.
>>That article will probably serve to keep many people from
>>trying it while at the same time attracting the type that Crossfit
>>wants to attract.
>
> That would be a clever strategy but good only if CrossFit does care
> about proper technique and injury prevention.
As I said above, they care but it's not their priority. DragonDoor's
approach is "lifting for everyone" while also attempting to provide
useful training to experienced athletes. CrossFit is clearly not for
everyone.
>>I didn't read the article as a put-down of Crossfit, just a
>>description of what it is.
>
> I read it as a put-down by a journalist who sounds like she (1) is
> intimidated by a balls-to-the-wall workout and/or (2) hopes that this
> description will get her a lot of attention. I suspect that trainers
> and members at most gyms - and most NYT readers who "exercise" -
> would, for various reasons, share a negative attitude towards a
> CrossFit-type approach to strength and strength-endurance training.
I am intimidated by the balls-to-the-walls descriptions of CrossFit
workouts. I'm plenty "fit" by my own definition - low resting pulse,
good body composition, good health - and I achieve it by means that, as
I was saying in the deadlifting thread, are both safer and more
effective in so far as they help me achieve my goals.
The article clearly shows an ignorance of hard-core exercise - I don't
disagree with that assessment of it. But neither do I think that
knowledge of and familiarity with hard-core exercise is a requirement
for writing an article about CrossFit for the NY Times - it's not a
exercise magazine, it's a newspaper for a general readership, one that's
interested in alternatives in exercise. If the article discourages your
average couch potatoe from trying CrossFit, I think that's fine.
-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:16:24 -0500, "Steve Freides"
<steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
><damifino@oldman.org> wrote in message
>news:d7vqq15dtu3dk199rho8c2a4tauprblfts@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:20:28 -0500, "Steve Freides"
>> <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"David Cohen" <sammiesdad@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:aM0rf.9661$nm.3179@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote
>>>>> <coach@fuckedmeintheass.com> wrote
>>>>>> Try this book on weight training. It has been a big help to
many.
>>>>>> www.mymomlicksmyballs.com/ebook.html
>>>>>
>>>>> No, thank you.
>>>>
>>>> That's Steve, Coach. He's nice.
>>>>
>>>> As for me, please go fuck your spamming whore mother in the ass with
>>>> a
>>>> broken coke bottle ($1.52 to Best Friends Animal Society in Rob
>>>> Schuh's name).
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>>Love Me, I'm A Liberal.
>>>
>>>-S-
>>>http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>> And in a recent thread - "Just call me an ultra-conservative. :) "
>>
>> (I'd use a larger size for the smiley icon if I could.)
>>
>> What's a liberal ultra-conservative?
>
>A free thinker. :)
>
>>>From what little I know of Crossfit, it doesn't sound like a bad
>>>article.
>>
>> An article that says crossfit trainers and enthusiasts don't care
>> about proper technique or injury prevention?
>
>I don't think Crossfit places an emphasis on proper technique or injury
>prevention - that doesn't mean they think those things aren't important,
>it just means that they assume the people who participate in their
>programs have already learned proper technique and are smart and
>self-monitoring enough to practice it when they workout.
>
>There are, by the way, a couple of threads on DragonDoor in recent days
>discussing similiarities and differences between the Party approach and
>the CF approach - several people including some relatively well-known
>RKC have offered the opinion that they've quite similar, while Pavel has
>disagreed and pointed out why.
>
>>>That article will probably serve to keep many people from
>>>trying it while at the same time attracting the type that Crossfit
>>>wants to attract.
>>
>> That would be a clever strategy but good only if CrossFit does care
>> about proper technique and injury prevention.
>
>As I said above, they care but it's not their priority. DragonDoor's
>approach is "lifting for everyone" while also attempting to provide
>useful training to experienced athletes. CrossFit is clearly not for
>everyone.
>
>>>I didn't read the article as a put-down of Crossfit, just a
>>>description of what it is.
>>
>> I read it as a put-down by a journalist who sounds like she (1) is
>> intimidated by a balls-to-the-wall workout and/or (2) hopes that this
>> description will get her a lot of attention. I suspect that trainers
>> and members at most gyms - and most NYT readers who "exercise" -
>> would, for various reasons, share a negative attitude towards a
>> CrossFit-type approach to strength and strength-endurance training.
>
>I am intimidated by the balls-to-the-walls descriptions of CrossFit
>workouts. I'm plenty "fit" by my own definition - low resting pulse,
>good body composition, good health - and I achieve it by means that, as
>I was saying in the deadlifting thread, are both safer and more
>effective in so far as they help me achieve my goals.
>
>The article clearly shows an ignorance of hard-core exercise - I don't
>disagree with that assessment of it. But neither do I think that
>knowledge of and familiarity with hard-core exercise is a requirement
>for writing an article about CrossFit for the NY Times - it's not a
>exercise magazine, it's a newspaper for a general readership, one that's
>interested in alternatives in exercise. If the article discourages your
>average couch potatoe from trying CrossFit, I think that's fine.
>
>-S-
>http://www.kbnj.com
I read Pavel's comments on the DD forum
http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/376570/
and understand his position on the dissimilarities between his
training system and CrossFit.
I don't know how much emphasis CrossFit places on technique and injury
prevention. As you say, the CF folks seem to care about these things.
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html
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